What is spirituality actually for?Public theologian, author and activist Brian McLaren returns to Nomad to explore that question through his new novel The Great Rift. We talk about ritual, belonging and the power — and danger — of trying to engineer spiritual outcomes. Along the way we ask whether spiritual practices need God, what happens when we borrow rituals from different traditions, how communities hold disagreement, and whether Christianity needs to make more peace with mortality.Afterwards, Nomad hosts Tim and Nick reflect on what actually makes spirituality spiritual, the pull of ritual after deconstruction, the value of staying in relationship with a tradition that still has rough edges, and Brian’s striking observation that life keeps making us beginners.Interview starts at 12m 40sBooks, quotes & resources →Listener Survey We’d love to get to know our listeners a little better — how you found Nomad, what you value, what you listen to, and what else is part of your journey.Take our short listener survey →Nomad is an independent, ad-free podcast funded by its listeners. If these conversations matter to you, please consider supporting us on Patreon.

Released on 9 Nov 2026